25,000 signatures against company cars

The politics of jealousy always work quite well, particularly in Belgium. Not quite sure what makes people think cars will vanish off the road, people will simply need to buy one.

With stricter rules on slower speed limits this causes even more traffic problems and air pollution.

The politicians should be the first to go without a vehicle.

The passenger cars are not the biggest problem. The horribly bad and unreliable public transport system is. And then there are multiple strikes to add to it. The cars are staying. People might use their car less if the public transport is efficient.

Maybe, just maybe, people would drive more carefully if they had to pay for their own fuel, own brakes, own clutches etc. I often have the impression they drive so wildly and stupidly -and so often- because however they drive and if anything breaks down on the car, it's the employer who pays, so why not ride the clutch, slam on the brakes, drive like maniacs in built-up zones or in heavy traffic just to show off their oversize cars (and undersize driving skills).

No Jelaousy, just plain logic. Lets try to use some of it:
Employees who are given cars have all the incentive to use them, specially when the oil is included and to my understanding this is the case, thus causing more traffic and pollution. They are on the other hand, taken away all the incentive to look for alternative ways of transport, scuh as the city public transport, which will not have the demand and therefore the revenues to improve itself . Also, less public demanding a good and efficient public transport.
Moreover, the subsidies that the government is paying companies to give a car instead of a raise,, are coming from my taxpayer pocket. I rather use that money to improve the public transport or implement other infrastructure projects, which will give jobs. At the very least, give them to the employees, as the raise they deserve, which will increase public consumption and help the local economy.
This subsidies, are only benefiting companies paying less taxes and automakers and not the public in general.
I am shocked sometimes how people take for granted certain things without putting much thought into it. It is up to the public opinion to demand change. They have always received a car instead of a raise which they can use for WHATEVER they want without polluting, and saving some complaining when they are stuck in traffic.

It'd be great to get some links to the original article/study.

So, valk, you think people come out to join the lines because they don't pay for them?

For SURE this is the politics of jealousy.

Belgium is already being considered a place to avoid by business in general. Your solution for these companies is what, precisely?

Apart from leaving of course?

Anon....If the car breaks down, it's the employee who pays. It was already factored in to his package. The demonization of the company car driver in Belgium needs to be countered with an alternative. It's not here, it's not anywhere.

in our company, it's definitely not the employee who pays if the car breaks down. but i suppose it depends on your contract.

My mistake. The employee does not pay, the employer did when they signed the leasing contract.

Seriously, this is demonization and I have yet to hear an alternative that will do anything other than encourage the exodus of business from Belgium.

Belgium will be all good as long as we can prevent people getting more than us? Yea, right.

This country just wants to kill the rest of international business here. Most of IT companies do not think of expanding their businesses here as it is way too expensive. Now take away the last benefit which makes this country attractive for highly skilled employees (and who pay a lot of taxes), how many will remain?
Less cars, less taxes, less leasing companies in Belgium, less car dealers, service and tire centers.

to Valc
>> the subsidies that the government is paying companies to give a car instead of a raise,, are coming from my taxpayer pocket.

You realize how ridiculous it sounds, right?
For me it sounds like "I don't want another person to get benefit for which he pays less taxes, because I'm not getting it"

Valc --> Not sure where you got your bull**** logic..Tax burden on the belgium employee's is already among the highest taxed in the world. Now if you take the last remaining small tax efficient benefits it will not take many years for the belgian pension and social security system to crumble as working class will start leaving the country for lower taxed neighbouring nations. Verify your thoughts on subsidies etc before putting it in the public domain...

This is a nice discussion, I've learned a few things.

I believe it was in the News that Belgium is the third highest tax country in the world, and I think France follows. Do they also give company cars in France?

Also, going to my community dutch class, I've met students with 3, 4 kids, and some expecting their 5th. Many of them say they are learning dutch to get a job. I don't dare ask, but how the hell is it possible to raise 3, 4, 5 kids if you don't have a job? Only in Europe!

+1 Mike!

Belgium is the world leader in labor tax with almost no competition. Next time you just remind these 2 charts:
http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/Figure-2.png
http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/Figure-5.png

And here is complete article for your reference:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/comparison-tax-burden-labor-oecd

Quote:
"The OECD has an average tax wedge on average income earners of 35.8 percent. This is 4.5 percentage points higher than the U.S. tax wedge of 31.3 percent, which ranks as the 25th highest in the OECD.
The highest total tax burden on wage income is in Belgium at 55.8 percent, followed by Germany (49.4 percent) and Austria (49.0 percent). The country with the lowest total tax rate on its labor is Chile at 7 percent."

Is this for real?
MIKE you mention jelaosuy of people who dont benefit from a car?
and what kind of companies are you referring to that need a solution?
Automakers? Car dealers? how many of those are in this country? as far as I know there are a handful of each.
or companies in general? businesses are going away because they are being taken away all the subsidies? and not because the socialist overtax them and make it so difficult and costly to come here in first place, and allowing all these strikes? this tax benefit from company cars is marginal. just look at your pay check and do the math.

All I am saying, give the people the raise they deserve and allow them to do whatever they want with it. If they want to buy a car, then be it. I will not. Not only because I rather do other things, but I dont want to complain everyday when Im stuck in traffic.

Game theory fellows. everybody wants their confort, but its gonna come at the worst cost for all of us. just like everybody bitching about having to work until 67. Who is gonna pay for your retirement? wake up, nobody, there is not enough money.

I agree, give people the raise they deserve and let them do what they want with it.

How do I get a raise that results in 800 a month NET (equivalent to the E Class, 5 series, A 6) that does not make my employer feel an urgent economic need to leave Belgium?

The tax on salary is the problem, the company car is a symptom. Best to treat the problem, don't you think?

The lefties do NOT have a solution to the fact that a war on the company car is only going to cause more problems for Belgium unless a workable solution is offered. Heck, I do NOT need an E class, I take it because there is NO CASH ALTERNATIVE!!!!

Or I did.

No longer a tax payer in Belgium, sick of being classed as the bloody problem when over half my salary vanished!